115570-toxic-communities-are-giving-us-poor-representation
Content ---- ---- ---- I can't believe they aren't getting sued for slander. | |} ---- Resorting to name calling and other abusive behavior just because someone has a different opinion than you is hardly a sign of a friendly "community". Perhaps if Carbine actually bothered to give everyone a chance to express their concerns during beta, without getting pages of toxic replies calling them a "hater", "troll", "filthy casual", etc. the game would not be in it's current situation. Many of those concerns did in fact turn out to be warranted. Besides, players who quit can't post on these forums. The feedback of people who left the game could be pretty useful too, you just have to actually bother to listen to them without simply dismissing what they say because they are "haters". | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- It's trite but true. If you don't tell the devs what you like, it's subject to change. | |} ---- ---- ---- :huh: Somebody's got to clean that up, you know. | |} ---- The feedback of people who leave is completely worthless on a public forum... It's open to debate, opinion, flames, ect... If the dev's want good feedback on why people is leaving the only really effective method is a exit survey of some sort. | |} ---- It seems Carbine has a different stance than your opinion since they plan to change many of the things players have left feedback about in these forums w/o a exit survey. I can't recall how many times Carbine has said that respectful feedback and discussion is important in these forums too. You're right though, kinda. If Carbine wanted an exit survey they would add one, but the forums , reddit, and data are what they prefer. | |} ---- Chua aren't big enough to be a counter balance. You probably need all that mechari metal to really balance things. ;-) | |} ---- ---- Valid. The WS subreddit isn't (or wasn't) like that though. It's full of whiter-than-the-snow white knights who spent the greater part of the beta saying "shhhhhh don't say anything even remotely related to beta or voice concerns because you'll make carbine angry!" And then spent the months after beta crushing anyone who voiced a complaint about the game. Now, of course, they are singing a slightly different tune, which I suspect is mostly because they just can't ignore the reality that's being shoved in their sycophantic faces. ...they annoyed me. | |} ---- ---- And anyone who thinks official forums are anything other than a carefully tended garden pruned by people paid to be biased is just fooling themselves. But rather than try to treat symptoms, lets talk about actual causes: Why are lapsed players toxic? Amongst other things, the developers were ridiculous braggarts before launch, talking incredible smack on every other house in their industry with things like "3 month between content releases is just so outdated..." Oh how the mighty have fallen. If you don't get the urge to rub some dirt in that kind of smirking, swaggering BS I submit you're not human (or Chua). What kinda of ego does it take to launch a AAA MMO and not include an exit survey? What, you think your game is so genius no one will ever leave? Aside from the tangible, actionable information that could have been gathered (now lost to the whistling halls of missed opportunity), it would have given every person leaving at least the faint hope their concerns had been heard by the people most able to do something about it. I'm sorry, without that closure, what did you think people were going to do? Go off and quietly sulk? Wrong century. They're gonna rip you a new one in places you can't meaningfully respond but which drag your creation down all the same. | |} ---- ---- I think it's just the differene between hype and hate. Before the game launched (and I'm taking what you said verbatim, so apologies if I offend anyone for getting the wrong idea) everyone was all about the 40 man raids. Hell, it was the biggest selling point for a lot of people. "Oh it's going to be so epic to have 40 man raids that are actually hard again, we haven't had those since.... vanilla WoW?" Then they get into the game, and reality sets in. 40 man raids take a lot of people showing up on time and facing the grueling grind. Yes, when you clear a boss the first time, it is a feeling unmatched by anything an MMORPG has ever done. Big raids and big victories look great on YouTube, but the work to get there is phenomenal. There's a reason you heard 40 people losing their shit in those videos and feeling like we'd conquered the world. We sometimes were stuck on bosses for weeks. So you get the actual raids, and people are complaining because they can't even get through attunement. They don't want to work, they want to be making their YouTube video and telling their friends how great they are. Instead, the hard reality is that these raids are full of hard work that goes beyond the raid time. It's practicing, making sure everyone has the BIS as great as you can get it, keeping an attuned back bench, working with your buddies on older content for the younger raiders, and wiping on bosses over and over and over. People didn't want to do that, that was in the way of Avatus, it was nothing but grind. The strange reality is that you have people who joined for 40 man raiding and lauded 40 man raiding complaining about 40 man raid realities like logistics. Even a lot of WoW raiding guilds aren't capable of pulling that anymore. What makes guilds like Eugenic and Enigma so amazing, so awe-inspiring, isn't their ability to dodge red, it's their ability to be so dedicated. They'll be able to look down on pretty much everyone else and say, "We did what only a handful could do." And everyone that wanted to be there, but isn't, will roll their eyes and disregard them. Changes are being made to raiding to make it more accessible, and I'm on board with that. I'm still pro-attunement but also pro-removing-the-things-that-don't-really-relate-to-raiding like the silver medal timer things. I'm also still pro 40 man raids, but I suppose I'd support having 20 and 40 man modes of everything so that more people can experience DS, but there's still that pinnacle you can't really find anywhere else for the really dedicated. What I'm really annoyed at are people complaining about the raid-centric, hardcore nature of Wildstar because it's not solo- or small-group-friendly, when there are only two raids in Wildstar and aren't anywhere close to being the focus of the drops or even the game. It's just the stuff people think they can do but can't, so it must be something in the game. What's important is to always be adding to the game, not taking away from it. What things can be done to attract players who aren't here for much social interaction? I've posted about hours-long public events that people can dive in and out of that have roles for everything from solo players to large raids. I've also posted about putting in new mount type physics and racing subgames. I've posted in the past about veteran shiphands (which we're getting, and hopefully that should give the solo and small group players more to do). More dungeons and adventures, of course, more reasons to do world content like world bosses and events. There's a lot of that which can be done. It's not something that can be done by tomorrow; these are major new features that would take time to plan, develop, and implement. In the meantime, we have to look at ourselves and players and realize what we're asking for, what we want, and establish reasonable time frames for getting it. The less people content takes, the faster it gets cleared and becomes antiquated "old content", so solo players especially have to understand that they've gotten content in two of the last three drops, it's their playstyle that eats the content quickly and leaves them hating the very thing they got. If a completely randomized and always-interesting way to entertain solo players comes along that never gets old, that would be great. But, honestly, if players want that from Wildstar, they have to make the suggestion specifically about what they want, give good and constructive ideas on how to make and implement it, and understand that these things take a LOT of time to build from scratch. I stick around and have faith because, of all development houses, I think Carbine can do it. They've proven to be unstoppable workhorses given how much feedback was thrown their way that they answered. They're a better bet than SE or CCP, who have great games but simply aren't adaptable enough to really give players what they want, or Blizzard which managed to turn years of requests for player housing into WoD's garrison mechanics. But all this takes a lot of time and work, and if players want a magical puzzle box of PVE content that can keep them entertained for exactly as long as they have to play, the very least it's going to take is a chunk of time to design and build. | |} ---- ---- I'll give them a little while after launching drop 3-4 before I write another treatise-length piece of feedback, though... I kind of hope they can at least go easy on development for a week so these people can see their families. | |} ---- You can't them for slander because 1) It's anonymous and 2) Attempting to trace the account to it's holder can be misconstrued as invasion of privacy and get you slapped with a counter suit. Also, it's just a bunch of internet randoms. Who gives a crap what they think? | |} ---- ---- People waste a lot of time in this game. They are able to love and hate this game at the same time. | |} ----